Asis,
I think you are right. Afe5r all, Anna Sheriodan was the focus of Book2 of the Technomages. Actually made one feel sorry for her.
I gotta say, theyu REALLY should make a technomage movie.!-)
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Asis,
I think you are right. Afe5r all, Anna Sheriodan was the focus of Book2 of the Technomages. Actually made one feel sorry for her.
I gotta say, theyu REALLY should make a technomage movie.!-)
A technomage movie would kick ass!
AFAIK, a human can merge with a shadow vessle, but they (the CPU and the craft) go insane. At least, that's what happened with the one found on or around Jupiter (I'm bad with episode names). Ah! Good ol' Lurkers Guide. Messages from Earth. There's a line under Backplot: "A Shadow ship requires a living being at its core; the two merge, becoming one entity. If the pilot isn't properly prepared, the result is a confused, insane ship". Ok, there you have it.
I like the idea of a technomage movie, too. What I can't decide on is whether is should be with actors and sets, or a cartoon. After all, JMS is into comic books. Either one would be cool in my (humble)opinion.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
A technomage comic would certainly have a reduced SFX budget requirement http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Hiya Ian! Where ya been? I sent you an email, but I dont know if you got it. Whats your curren Email addy?
Anyway, My question is: Howcome nothing had been mention (so far) in the Crusade series , abolut Galens ability to create sub universes and their destructice power?
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Nommy
Nommy,
Jeanne Cavelos kinda answered that on the Scifi Channel Board. Follow Zim's Link (pasted below) at Spec. Vision to her topic at Scifi Channel Board for comments from her and questions to her. I just read that this morning as a matter of fact.
http://www.scifi.com/bboard/browse.c.../37791?pnum=16
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
[This message has been edited by sindatur (edited August 23, 2001).]
Just picked up the new Technomage novel tonight! I had to go to B&N to find it, but it was worth venturing that close to the local mall.
Somehow, it's so much more satisfying to go buy the book at the store. I guess I just like to be tempted by other books calling out to me, pleading with me to take them home, too. :)
So, it's off to bed to get started on the book. Unfortunately,that means leaving the computer and ejecting the latest Pink Floyd CD, Echoes, that I picked up while I was out and about tonight. Life is tough. :-D
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MightyLady of the Flame Red Hair
Every time I push the envelope, I get a paper cut.
OK, I have read and re-read this novel. If you bought the first two, don't bother with this one. The first half is interesting, we learn more about Galen's family and how he came to live with Elric. We also learn how Elric died and some other cool info.
The second half of the book is just plain bad. To say the plot is convoluted would be polite.
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OK, Way too much time is spent on Anna and her reconditioning. Justin predicts everything Sheridan will ask or say and feeds Anna with all the right responses. No offense, Sheridan may be a Chowderhead but he is not that predictable. I really did not need to spend that much time reading how Anna wants to rejoin the machine, how Anna cannot remmber her life before the machine, how Anna has to obey the machine, ect...
Tying all of this into Sheridan's trip to Z'ha'dum is a stretch. Granted it answers how the White Star breaches (sp) the Shadows security system but that is about all it does. The worst part of it is that it turns the attention away from Galen and the Mages and places it on Sheridan. It's not even original Sheridan material. Too make it even worse, in the middle of a fight scene, Galen checks in on Sheridan and we are treated to what Sheridan is up to. We already know waht Sheridan is up to, we watched the show. I don't need a transcript from the show to know what is happening there. Not to mention that the transition from Galen fleeing to Sheridan is really confusing. I had to re-read those sections multiple time to figure out what was happening.
Galen saving Morden is a bit out there for my liking. I liked that Galen was hesitant to kill Morden if Morden was simply a drone. Once Galen learns that Morden is not a drone, why does he save him? I am sure that it ties back to Elric's last wish that Galen not kill in Elric's name but that is not really clear. Not to mention, leaving Morden exposed to the nuclear blast is not the same as shooting Morden himself. Galen could have allowed Morden to die with out killing Morden, there by honoring Elric's promise. FGalen did not have to go to the effort of trying to save Morden by giving him his organells or asking Lorien to save Morden.
Finally, the idea that Weidren was powering the Eye was kind of cool (makes me think about the Draal in the Great Machine and opens up a whole slew of questions). I can even buy the logic behind her being there. I cannot buy the fact that Galen casts a spell with no equation. More importantly, I cannot buy into Galens being a relativly happy camper once he returns to the hiding place. The Galen I saw in Crusade was still torn up over Isabelle's death, was not ready to accept the notion that there is a God or some direction to the universe. Yet I am suppose to believe that Galen is willing to accept that God might exist at the end of this book? ummm No.
The last half of the book was disappointing. The plot was flat out poor. It strikes me as if JMS was trying to find a way to explain Sheridan's idiotic decision to go to Z'Ha'dum, how the White Star was able to detonate the nukes, and how Morden survived. Remember, the outline was written by JMS, so Cavelos was forced to work within JMS's parameters.
Overall, I found it disappointing. I would have prefered to see the Galen vs Elizar and Razell. I am still not sure if Galen killed them or they were killed in the blast. I am fairly certain that they were killed in the blast and not by Galen himself, which of course means that they could very well be alive. I would have liked to see this tie into Crusade if possible, although I was not expecting that.
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<font face="georgia">Well, <u>it</u> arrived yesterday. Got home waaaay late, but decided that at least one chapter needed to be read. 'Course, had to read the acknowlements first, just to see how many lucky souls got "manuscript review" credits, meaning they got to read the story first. If everyone had to pay for the privlige, she's a rich woman! Based on her last comments, this one was tougher than the rest.
Got chapter 1 finished. Worth the price of the book already...details on how and why Kosh came to his end. Oh, it fills in the blanks nicely. I'd say more, but that'd take all the fun away...</font>
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
<font face="georgia">Well, <u>it</u> arrived yesterday. Got home waaaay late, but decided that at least one chapter needed to be read. 'Course, had to read the acknowlements first, just to see how many lucky souls got "manuscript review" credits, meaning they got to read the story first. If everyone had to pay for the privlige, she's a rich woman! Based on her last comments, this one was tougher than the rest.
Got chapter 1 finished. Worth the price of the book already...details on how and why Kosh came to his end. Oh, it fills in the blanks nicely. I'd say more, but that'd take all the fun away...</font>
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
<font face="georgia">Well, I must respecfully disagree. If you got the first two books, definately get this one. I believe it fills in a lot of gaps in the storyline as well as satisfying Galen's character development. There may have been a bit too much with Anna, or it emphasized just how much she was affected by her refusal to freely join the side of chaos.
The only nit I think I see was the Eye. After the nukes, Ivanova, Delen and Lyta went to Z'ha'dum to "look" for Sheridan, and they became entranced by some entity around that planet. Now, I don't recall that entity being called the "Eye", but it seems very similar. Ok...any more and I'll need spoiler headings.<font face="wingdings">
[This message has been edited by Wizz (edited December 02, 2001).]
It took a third reading, but I finally figured out what happened to Razelle and Elizar. Rah The third reading was due to to fact that I was a wee bit tipsy the first time I read it. I felt I had missed something.
I still found the ending convuluted and Galen's final transformation to be bogus. But I did figure out what happened to Elizar and Razelle. I am trying to figure out how an arm and a leg could attack Galen and failing miserably. (shrugs)
The Kosh and Morden stuff was excellent.
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<font face="georgia">The interfacing with the shadow ship generally required the mind to be altered so the interface would be sucessful. Personality gone. With Galen's case, though, the transformation allowed both the tech and the person to merge, rather than one dominating the other. Galen sucessfully merged with Bunny's ship, no problem. The issue through the ages was getting the tech and the person to merge peacefully with some success rate that would make the mages useful. As it was, the mages were a difficult lot to deal with, leading the Liberators (I'm assuming they're the ones calling the shots) to rethink things and modify the thought processes of the "cpu's" they captured so the merging was at a higher sucess rate. Who needs personality with a weapon?
As for Razeel, I think you missed something. When I read it (and checked again), Razeel was missing those body parts due to the number of hits she took chasing Galen from the Chrysalis construction chamber. She just refused to succumb to the missing limbs, because...well, she was Razeel. I don't think her elevator ever went to the top floors in any of the books. The only failure in Galen's mission was Morden.
I'll have to say too that I understand why Galen (in Crusade) never really gave 2? what the Circle wanted or said. Talk about a bunch of rookies getting sanctimonious(sp?) over what he did or didn't do. Like destroying the tech on Z'ha'dum. Was there a choice? Oh, the Circle reserves the right to decide if there perhaps a safer, non-threatening method? Yeah...like they could come up with a better method that the Shadows. They weren't there, didn't see that the spell of destruction wasn't all-powerful. Meanwhile, Galen shows up on time at the meeting place with a shadow ship under control. Pretty sure when all is said and done, the Circle is more afraid of Galen now than upset with him.
I liked this book also for the details that weren't available (that I could see). Details about Kosh, the Shadows having a name (Liberators), Vorlon personal transports, etc. I was disappointed with the Justin/Sheridan/Morden/Anna dialogs. I also think the timing was off quite a bit. But it was weak in the season three, too. Weak excuse just to get Sheridan to Z'ha'dum and meet Lorien.
But hey! Who woulda thought of Morden being restored the way he did? Just so Vir could wave at him on the pike later on...
Laundry to do. Should have done it yesterday, but was too busy reading a book I didn't put down 'til it was finished.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
I love watching you 2 debate, there's always both sides discussed, and you both always have such great points.
PC, you read entirely too fast, if I was to say I was too tipsy when I read this book, that would mean I hadn't come down for weeks, LOL.
Anyway, I finally got it, as I said it will probably take me weeks to finish it, I generally get only about a half hour a day to read, if that.
I have finished the first two chapters and am loving it, can't wait to get to the parts you guys are debating. I greatly appreciated the Kosh stuff in chapter 1, although we knew the basic part of it, it's great to see it fleshed out through Kosh's perspective that way, rather than just through Sheridan's perspective and as an outside observer watching it.
Read a little of Chapter 3. I always had a problem understanding where the MAges went to (call me stupid for not figuring out the explanation) and it was nice to be told they were on an asteroid that was hidden from the rest of the universe and locked up so no one could leave. I always had this vision of them going beyond the rim or something and couldn't deal with that explanation.
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
[This message has been edited by sindatur (edited December 03, 2001).]
Debate? Nah...besides, I know better. More like a difference in observations.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I do agree that there are some areas in the last third of the book that were kind of rough to follow. Re-reading at times to get it clear. I have to wonder if Jeanne had some deadlines that snuck up on her, or her committe of reviewers (a large list of names) kind of confuzzled things. Maybe time will tell.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
OK...OK...Now I GOTTA get the third book. Sorry, had to finish Harry potter Book 1 again.
PC, Tipsy? Hmmm...wish I was there for that.
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Nommy
OK...OK...Now I GOTTA get the third book. Sorry, had to finish Harry potter Book 1 again.
PC, Tipsy? Hmmm...wish I was there for that.
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Nommy
Debate? Nah...besides, I know better. More like a difference in observations.
http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I do agree that there are some areas in the last third of the book that were kind of rough to follow. Re-reading at times to get it clear. I have to wonder if Jeanne had some deadlines that snuck up on her, or her committe of reviewers (a large list of names) kind of confuzzled things. Maybe time will tell.
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
We already had a good reason for Galen not caring what the Circle said. Galen felt the Circle had behaved in a cowardly fashion when ordering the Mages to hide and not fight the Shadows. Secondly, Galen lost all respect for the Circle when he found out that they knew that the tech came from the Shadows, meaning they knew the nature of the tech all along. Galen only went to the hiding place because he deemed himself too dangerous.
The way I read the book, all that was left of Razelle was an arm and a leg and she was still fighting. I'll have to go and check that.
I never got the impression that the Shadows wanted the Mages as CPU's for their ships. The Mages were meant to use their abilities to spread Chaos. Wiedren herself tells Galen that the Shadows were annoyed with the creation of the the Code that restricted what the Mages could do. If the Shadows felt that the Mages were an experiment gone wrong, why continue to create the tech?
The first part of the book was very good, I enjoyed it alot. The second part would have been decent if they had not drawn in Sheridan and his trip to Z'ha'dum. It was an unnecessarially convoluted plot twist that made things more confusing and added in characters who distracted from the main storyline. But that is me.
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<font face="georgia">I'll agree that Galen didn't have much respect for the Circle (the one with the older mages running it) after the secret was revealed. However, he did have respect for the individuals, even Elric. Granted, he didn't want to associate with them. The new Circle, though, he was more open with his contempt, based on the bits and pieces in "Crusade". Honestly, I'm surprised he didn't just jump into his shadow ship and head on out. If nothing else, who was going to stop him? Guess he just did "the right thing".
Sheridan's trip and interaction with Justin wasn't that great, you're right. I think it was put there just to have something to jump to, like another plot device, to keep the reader in a bit of suspense from the main story. How many times did Justin have to say "...you will do what you're told!"? 'Course, writers get paid by either the word or the page, correct?</p>
BTW, Ulkesh really was a first-class jerk. Other adjectives come to mind, but this isn't an unmoderated newsgroup. :c)
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
*sigh*
I'm envious. Looks like I may have been the first posting here to get my hands on Book 3, but I'll probably be the last to finish it.
*sigh, sigh*
Even now, I should be doing homework instead of typing a post. By the time I get around to reading most nights, it's already 2 hours past my bedtime. I read about 3 paragraphs before the book bops me on the noggin, at which point I put it away, take off the glasses and turn out the light.
Okay, okay. I'll quit whining. I know my life is pretty good if this is all I have to complain about. :-?
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MightyLady of the Flame Red Hair
Every time I push the envelope, I get a paper cut.
HEHE, Mightylady, I've been reading it since Sunday and am only on PAge 70, so don't feel completely alone.
I see Galen is still taking his agressions out on himself through overscouring, even after 2 years in hiding. I don't know if this is answered later in the book, but, I was wondering if maybe that was why Galen pulled some of his disappearing tricks in Crusade, because he was still doing that to himself at that time, and disappearing allowed him to hide it from Gideon and hte others.
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
<font face="georgia"> Oh, the scouring issue is handled. And, he gets a bit more intense at one point (again). Personally, I think he gets over it, and doesn't toddle off during the Crusade series to do it anymore. Besides, except for the episode where he took everyone on a field trip so he could put Isabelle to her final resting place, he seems pretty much in control of his life. Hardly any angst anymore, other than the normal day-to-day stuff technomages seem to have. I know I mentioned a shadow ship, so you can imagine if he's flying one of those sucessfully, he must've gotten his act together. Can you imagine what a ship like that could do with a technomage like Galen in an unfriendly mood at the helm? Heh...say "Good-bye" to Ulkesh.</font>
[This message has been edited by Wizz (edited December 17, 2001).]
Thanks Wizz! I see how the pages work now. Much better, IMHO
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Nommy
orden was as Soo to find more than "supporters" fro amongst the mages. I shall try not to spoil later pages for those on page 100 - but the origin of the Mage tech makes Morden's presence clear, no? To determine whether the Shadows should cut off the supply of tech (or at least to threaten to) unless the mages choose to fight with the Shadows.
Or a I going mad again?
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There is note fate but that we make
Morden was on Soom to find more than "supporters" from amongst the mages. I shall try not to spoil later pages for those on page 100 - but the origin of the Mage tech makes Morden's presence clear, no? To determine whether the Shadows should cut off the supply of tech (or at least to threaten to) unless the mages choose to fight with the Shadows.
Or a I going mad again?
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There is note fate but that we make
Morden was on Soom to find more than "supporters" from amongst the mages. I shall try not to spoil later pages for those on page 100 - but the origin of the Mage tech makes Morden's presence clear, no? To determine whether the Shadows should cut off the supply of tech (or at least to threaten to) unless the mages choose to fight with the Shadows.
Or a I going mad again?
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There is note fate but that we make
Reading the book now. The way its going, I wont be done before Xmas!
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Nommy
<font face="Georgia">Really, Nommy? Shoot...I started reading it one night, second night I finished a bit more, but as the following day was Saturday, it got finished Saturday afternoon. You just have too much to do, or is it boring?
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Well, I still have 37 pages left, should finish this week.
Book 3
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I actually have enjoyed the Anna and John Sheridan stuff, maybe a few too many pages were dedicated to it, but, I got new insight on what was going through Anna's mind when she went to B5 to get John. I enjoyed finding out about how they re-trained Anna to act like Anna and how difficult it was for her, from the series I always just thought they released her from captivity and kept her Shadow influence intact.
Also I remember everyone asking how John made it so far when he left the meeting with Justin and how he was capable of bringing the Whitestar crashing down on Z'ha'dum. Having Galen running around while showing John's adventures on Z'ha'dum explained that pretty nicely.
I did get confused regarding the Tech though. I must've missed something. Galen said something to Elizar about he knows how the Tech was made now and how could Elizar live with that. I remember talk about the Shadow Skin, and the Machine People in the cyclinders, but I didn't connect how that shows how the Tech is made. Can anyone explain that part to me? I am really enjoying this book, I'll be sad to see it end.
Anyone know if and when there will be a next book/Trilogy and what the subject will be?
We still have the Legend of the Rangers movie to look forward to. Hope Vivendi will care for the project as much as the old owners of the Scifi Channel seemed to.
Oh, and the Taratimude, not sure I have a complete handle on them. I believe they are an old race that was allied with the Shadows (Like the Drahk) and the Shadows civilized them and implanted them with the Tech. Then it seems somehow they were all but destroyed (perhaps a quashing of a rebellion) and other races were brought into the MAge fold and no longer were allowed to know where the Tech was actually coming from.
Anyone have a different take on it than that?
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Sindatur - The Grey owl Wizzard
[This message has been edited by sindatur (edited December 19, 2001).]
Well Wizz, I would have to say it's a matter of both. I am a bit busy, but I found the beginning few chapters a little slow to read. (shrugs)
I am up o the point just after Galen told Elric and the Circle that Soom was in ruins.
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Nommy
<font face="georgia">Sindatur, check out where Galen met up with Razeel again, in the room where the Chryalis were being "grown", and look at what was used for starting that process. One of the caverns where she saw him and he had to book out quick, firing the single equations spheres at her as she chased him. (I suppose I could go look up the page numbers, but I'm really lazy when I'm behind the 'puter).
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Do not tempt the patience of Wizzards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.